Comments on: Searching, Publicity; How Well It Can Work, How Well It Should http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/ The experiences in Second Life of Ordinal Malaprop. Scripting, design, observations, notes. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:42:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Ordinal Malaprop http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21771 Ordinal Malaprop Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:55:56 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21771 I think that is more a sociological point, in that despite their impassioned complaints it is very hard to get a group larger than half a dozen people to actually _do_ anything effective about them on the Grid, though occasionally there is an unexpected mass movement. One issue is that despite their apparent importance to those who read them, forums and journals and whatnot are actually fairly irrelevant to the day-to-day lives of most on the Grid, who will not know about homunculi and suchlike until they are bitten. The Copybot furore I think spread because of a transition from Forum to World, which is a lesson I believe for protestors and rabble-rousers. I think that is more a sociological point, in that despite their impassioned complaints it is very hard to get a group larger than half a dozen people to actually _do_ anything effective about them on the Grid, though occasionally there is an unexpected mass movement.

One issue is that despite their apparent importance to those who read them, forums and journals and whatnot are actually fairly irrelevant to the day-to-day lives of most on the Grid, who will not know about homunculi and suchlike until they are bitten. The Copybot furore I think spread because of a transition from Forum to World, which is a lesson I believe for protestors and rabble-rousers.

]]> By: Ace Albion http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21765 Ace Albion Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:43:54 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21765 The "condemnation" of landbots and campbots is nothing more than the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I don't mean that the objections are not valid, I mean that they have no effect whatever, and those who utilise these systems continue to use them and profit them, with no deterent from doing so other than having to grow a thicker skin. Whatever the Electric Sheep choose to do, if there is a way for someone to exploit this technology for their own profit, regardless of the detriment of others (or even due to it) they will do so. Brace yourselves, is what I'm saying. The “condemnation” of landbots and campbots is nothing more than the wailing and gnashing of teeth. I don’t mean that the objections are not valid, I mean that they have no effect whatever, and those who utilise these systems continue to use them and profit them, with no deterent from doing so other than having to grow a thicker skin.

Whatever the Electric Sheep choose to do, if there is a way for someone to exploit this technology for their own profit, regardless of the detriment of others (or even due to it) they will do so. Brace yourselves, is what I’m saying.

]]> By: Ordinal Malaprop http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21530 Ordinal Malaprop Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:28:50 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21530 Well, yes, certainly if Electric Sheep give assurances they are only relevant to Sheep, though it is an opportunity to set an example for those doing similar things in the future. But as for saying and expecting things of others, I would say that that already occurs; there is considerable condemnation of the irresponsible users of landbots and campbots and other homunculi, when they are identified - not to imply a connection between that sort of criminal and this project of course, just to show that it isn't simply the profile which affects the response. Well, yes, certainly if Electric Sheep give assurances they are only relevant to Sheep, though it is an opportunity to set an example for those doing similar things in the future. But as for saying and expecting things of others, I would say that that already occurs; there is considerable condemnation of the irresponsible users of landbots and campbots and other homunculi, when they are identified - not to imply a connection between that sort of criminal and this project of course, just to show that it isn’t simply the profile which affects the response.

]]> By: Ace Albion http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21517 Ace Albion Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:43:43 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21517 For those in the retail business who welcome this, adapting their sales methods to include buyable boxes with clear and useful names or descriptions will be something they can do to take advantage. I left my other thoughts around on Prokofy's blog and Clickable Culture, but I will say one further thing here: Whatever assurances relating to policy and information usage that Electric Sheep give, and hold to, they are only relevant to what Electric Sheep do. Nothing is said, or expected, or scrutinised, of the other one, 10 or 1000 object harvesting operators with lower profiles and presumably lower morals. For those in the retail business who welcome this, adapting their sales methods to include buyable boxes with clear and useful names or descriptions will be something they can do to take advantage.

I left my other thoughts around on Prokofy’s blog and Clickable Culture, but I will say one further thing here:

Whatever assurances relating to policy and information usage that Electric Sheep give, and hold to, they are only relevant to what Electric Sheep do. Nothing is said, or expected, or scrutinised, of the other one, 10 or 1000 object harvesting operators with lower profiles and presumably lower morals.

]]> By: Prokofy Neva http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21027 Prokofy Neva Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:32:38 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21027 Excellent write-up and very helpful to think through the issues. It's a bit boggling to me to think of how the homonculi can't *read*. I thought that by scanning shapes of words or something they did "read" after a fashion. My take on this issue of objects-for-sale-in-themselves versus vendors-of-objects-in-them is that the Sheep don't really care about objects for sale. They have SLBoutique.com for selling objects. What they care about is getting a search going. Ultimately, they want to scrape all stuff on all parcels. They'll want to scrape the names of parcels, avatars, the events calendar, the land for sale list -- whatever is to be scanned. Things for sale is just an easy place to start. I'm glad you saw fit to say that they should have given a heads up about the big scrape. That would have gone very far towards ameliorating some concerns. It does leave open the question about the ultimate USE of this data. There are no community checks and balances on a business that didn't see fit to consult with the community before it began scraping. Excellent write-up and very helpful to think through the issues. It’s a bit boggling to me to think of how the homonculi can’t *read*. I thought that by scanning shapes of words or something they did “read” after a fashion.

My take on this issue of objects-for-sale-in-themselves versus vendors-of-objects-in-them is that the Sheep don’t really care about objects for sale. They have SLBoutique.com for selling objects. What they care about is getting a search going. Ultimately, they want to scrape all stuff on all parcels. They’ll want to scrape the names of parcels, avatars, the events calendar, the land for sale list — whatever is to be scanned.

Things for sale is just an easy place to start.

I’m glad you saw fit to say that they should have given a heads up about the big scrape. That would have gone very far towards ameliorating some concerns.

It does leave open the question about the ultimate USE of this data. There are no community checks and balances on a business that didn’t see fit to consult with the community before it began scraping.

]]> By: Adri http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21016 Adri Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:57:24 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-21016 Well reasoned, well stated, and wonderfully free of sensationalism, Miss Malaprop. Thank you for this excellent report. Well reasoned, well stated, and wonderfully free of sensationalism, Miss Malaprop. Thank you for this excellent report.

]]> By: Nicola Escher http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-20970 Nicola Escher Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:44:46 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-20970 So thoroughly well-stated, I feel no need to write something up in my own journal. Kudos. So thoroughly well-stated, I feel no need to write something up in my own journal. Kudos.

]]> By: Tony Walsh http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-20968 Tony Walsh Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:43:12 +0000 http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/2007/04/10/searching-publicity-how-well-it-can-work-how-well-it-should/#comment-20968 Great article. I like the terminology you use for the bots. I have often used "homonculus" to describe my own avatar, but I think it's better-suited to a bot. Great article. I like the terminology you use for the bots. I have often used “homonculus” to describe my own avatar, but I think it’s better-suited to a bot.

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